Dr.
Saha: The
Dept. of S&T, New Delhi, has contributed a lot in enhancing the awareness in
the last ten years. We have been conducting workshops around the country. Most
of these workshops have been in remote places in district head quarters at the
behest of the institutions located there. Over 350 such workshops have been
conducted in the last ten years. These efforts have broadened the awareness
about IPR, the need for patenting and protecting the knowledge assets. There are
patent facilitating centers in all the state capitals. Several state governments
have issued Government Orders, which calls for spreading this awareness in all
Industrial Training Institutes and polytechnics. Madhya Pradesh, Kerala, Punjab,
Himachal Pradesh, Uttar Pradesh and West Bengal have introduced a line item in
state budgets for IPR related activities. This is a tremendous achievement in
itself. All these efforts are bound to result in increase in domestic patents.
Dr.
Saha: We have made our
efforts. EKASWA A & B are the databases that TIFAC has created is an effort
towards filling in a gap. It essentially takes the details available in
gazetteer. We have stopped the effort from 2004 as Indian Patent Office has to
take up the effort and I believe the work is already on and has reached a
certain stage.
Mr.
Rengasamy:
Full text of nearly 200,000 patents would be made available soon with full text.
These would include all the patents granted by the Indian patent office over the
years.
Mr.
Rengasamy: Now
a days most of the things dealing with patents depends on the applicant. They
have to file the application, request for examination, and also letter for
publication of the patent. With this it would be published within 2-3 weeks. We
can grant patents after six months from the date of publication. That is the
minimum period for opposition, as provided in the law. But normally publication
comes only at the end of 18 months. So it takes a minimum of two years to get a
patent.
Patents
are examined in the order of filing. Date of Request for Examination, not that
of application, determines patent examination sequence.
Mr.
Rengasamy: Patent
examiners are generally master’s degree holders and engineers and they examine
patents relating to their specialization. They read through and examine the
innovation based on the accepted norms vis-à-vis the claims made in the
application. The examiners raise doubts and get clarification from the
applicant. Amendments and
corrections are sought before granting the patent as and when required.
The
examiners are expected to check the records of our own patents from 1912
onwards. We are keeping a record of these things as per the Indian and other
classification. Apart from this typically an examiner would check U.S., European
and Japanese patent databases. These three are sufficient to conclude about the
novelty of the idea. In chemistry we use Chemical Abstracts’ STN online.
Dr.
Saha: Mistakes
could happen, I guess, when we work. In such a case there would be challenge to
the patent and depending on the context a decision on revoking would be taken.
But possibility of the mistake should not stop us from taking a decision.
Are
there many applications filed by foreign companies for Indian patents?
Mr.
Rengasamy:
In India nearly 80 percent of the patents filed are of foreign origin. Ours is
only 20 percent. The process of granting patent is the same for all
applications. Sequence of the examination goes by the numbers allotted for
examination
Mr.
Rengasamy: Rejection
is very rare. I have not come across a rejection in years that I have worked in
the patent office.
Mr.
Rengasamy: There
have been oppositions in recent times. Court conducts enquiry based on what the
contending parties file as their argument in case of opposition.
Mr.
Rengasamy: In
the recent years the number ranges from 25 – 30, 000 annually. This used to be
3-5, 000 till last five years.
Suppose
a person has been granted a patent in the US, can the same person get an Indian
patent for the same idea?
Mr.
Rengasamy: Yes,
but he has to file the application within 12 months under normal convention and
24 months under PCT. Otherwise he will forfeit his claim. That does not mean
someone else can take a patent for that idea or technology. All that it implies
is that the original inventor cannot enforce his rights in our geographical
territory. The technology for which a patent is not obtained in a geographical
area can be copied and put to commercial application. But the catch is, the
product cannot be exported to a country where it has been patented. In such
contexts much depends on the way the patent is drafted. It should not allow
itself to be copied and put to commercial use.
Mr.
Rengasamy: Right
now, New Delhi is leading, followed by Chennai, Mumbai etc. All the CSIR patents
get filed centrally in New Delhi.
Mr.
Rengasamy:
No. We are not violating anyone’s right any way. Those technologies are not
patented here and it is too late to patent now. So we have the right to market
them commercially within the country.
What
are your views on software patents? We do not have provision for this in our
context?
Dr.
Saha: It
is an entirely new area. Software in our context is covered under copyright. So
much so we have crossed the stage of debate as to whether or not. Now much of
the soft wares that are patented are embedded. To that extent it is not excluded
or new. The embedded software comes under the purview of patents along with the
product.
Dr.
Saha: As
far as my knowledge goes we are unique in that. However , there is a lot of
misconception about TKDL. In fact, it only captures 39,000 Ayurvedic
formulations. That is not all our traditional knowledge. But it is a useful tool
for reference in patent offices. It helps in rejecting an idea on the ground of
known knowledge.
Dr.
Saha: Patent
office is not concerned with these aspects. It is for the aggrieved party to
spot the violation and move the court. In fact I am filing many patents on
behalf of DST, New Delhi, we are not going to monitor what is happeneing beyond
that. I have no system of finding out any violation. Our goal is promotion of
innovation. As it stands now the affected party has to file a civil suit and
wait for redressal. But more often these disputes are settled out of court as
brand names and business is involved in these contexts. As to courts, right now,
we may not have all the expertise. There are not many case laws on these issues
also. It will grow as we move on. But we have not been able to justify a
separate IP court, as the number of disputes at present is too few for any such
independent institution.
Dr.
Saha: It
is not a numbers game because at the end of the day it is only some five percent
of the patents that gets licensed. The numbers have to be there. We cannot have
a 100 percent pick.
Chinese
have taken US patents on carpet design etc. Surely they are not going to enforce
their IP rights. It seems to be basically having larger numbers against their
name.
Dr.
Saha: We
do not know. Basically China, India and Brazil are not on the innovation track.
Ten years back we were all new to the innovation game. We were always on the
research publication mode. In 10 years from 1995 we have crossed a mile stone,
we will catch on with innovation in the years to come.
Dr.
Saha: This
has to do with the economic progress of the country. These counties have grown
with a lot of US investments, along with that came culture of innovation. It is
not just the infrastructure; it is the culture of innovation that has made the
difference.
Dr.
Saha: NIF
is set up by Dept. of S&T, New Delhi. Apart from documentation it could be a
big confidence building exercise, for the country and the individuals involved.
Dr.
Saha: The
idea could be introduced at the school level. There are school science
exhibitions. There you see involvement of young children in science. These
activities need to be encouraged and proper credits given. That is where it
could all begin.